Barbara Patterson (00:57)
Hi, welcome back to the Interverse of Business and Life podcast. I'm your host, Barb Patterson. Today, I get to sit down with an old colleague and friend, Julianne Weiss. Julianne is a solopreneur, a consultant, an executive coach, and she's worked with organizations, leaders, and teams from around the globe. But here's the twist.

About 14 years ago, when I first asked Julienne if she would ever consider going out on her own and starting her own business, I believe her reply was somewhere in the vein of, nope, that's not for me. It's not my personality. And yet today, now 13 years later, you're going to hear how she did make that leap. And what were the internal shifts, the aha moments that, and the life circumstances?

that actually catapulted that choice. In this conversation with Julianne, she shares about dealing with the wobbles of entrepreneurship, as she calls it. She talks about how her love and passion for mountain biking has become a great metaphor to leadership and entrepreneurship. She shares about those ideas around imposter syndrome or failure.

have really been avenues for helping her step into her power, her leadership, and get more and more comfortable in the way she works with people. It's a really great conversation, very relatable. I have no doubt you're gonna enjoy learning from Julianne and also relate to a lot of what she says. So without further ado.

Please enjoy this conversation. As always, if you know anyone that would get value from it, I encourage you to share it. Thank you.

Barbara Patterson (03:00)
Hey, Julianne. Hello, hello, hello. I'm so glad you're here.

Juliann Wiese (03:02)
Hi Barb. Hello.

I can't tell you how excited I am. It's bring back a bunch of really good memories.

Barbara Patterson (03:12)
Yeah,

yeah, for those of you listening and watching, Julianne and I had the opportunity to work together for many years. And in working together, we created a really strong bond and shared lots of humor. And we both can have that sort of darker, sarcastic humor, which is a relief button often when things are going a little crazy. So we bonded on that, I think, right away, didn't we?

Juliann Wiese (03:29)
Hahaha

Yeah, yeah,

many things, yeah.

Barbara Patterson (03:40)
Well, I'm so glad you're here. also, I thought I'd just start with the original sort of nudge and impetus for me wanting to invite you as a guest on the podcast. throughout the years, you know, Julianne and I stopped working together. It's been almost 14 years ago now around that time. And I had it was at the time that I had decided to leave my role and to start my own business, my own coaching consulting business.

And Julianne and I were sitting somewhere over a meal. It might have been in the office cafeteria maybe. And I asked, you know, hey, have you ever thought about going out on your own? And I'm paraphrasing, but I think I'm pretty close to the tone and energy of what that exchange. And it was pretty much like, no, I don't have that personality. That's not in my makeup.

Juliann Wiese (04:28)
Yeah.

Barbara Patterson (04:32)
And it was funny because I totally saw that potential. Like, I'm not special. Like, anyone that knows Julianne would see, would argue with her on that point, right? But it was interesting to me because it got me thinking like, maybe that's true. Like, maybe what it takes to be an entrepreneur or solopreneur that kind of, you know, you got to think about.

building relationships and a pipeline and all those things early. The first couple of times I tried my hand at business, I didn't really think through. So they didn't go as well as I'd hoped. So I remember kind of thinking, okay, maybe she's maybe she's right. And then what's happened then is sometime within a short period, like within the next year, I want to say maybe a little longer, you went out on your own. And so it has been so fun to kind of

watch you step into that and to see you have success and I'm sure like everyone there's been bumps and we'll get into that today. But I've always thought about that and I think the reason why in my own mind it was interesting, I'm going to let you talk in just a minute, is because I think we often do that. We have an idea of ourselves

and we just kind of close doors on opportunity or we don't take a kind of leap into something because we've defined who we are, what we're good at, what we're not good at. And so to see you kind of break that has been fun for me. So I'm curious from your perspective, do you remember that conversation? What were you feeling in that moment? In that moment?

Juliann Wiese (06:10)
I do.

Well, I think when you have a period of time with a lot of certainty, like a regular job and consistent paycheck and all of the wonderful things that come along with that, right? That stability and that safety.

you do get concretized to it and it starts to feel like anything different than that would be way too big of a transition. it's interesting because my mother was an entrepreneur. so I watched her do her own thing and be successful at it. But she was like an analytical, very detail oriented type person. And I think I had

talked myself out of, like I could do the work, but I couldn't run a business. And both of those things felt very different to me, like they're so distinct. So I think at the time that was really it was like, I don't have what it takes to do the financials and the taxes and the marketing and all of that, you know, business development.

which is interesting because of course you know that I also have done a tremendous amount of sales training. And so I think one of the wake up calls I had was, wait a minute, I do know how to do some of this. So yeah, it's been a very interesting journey.

Barbara Patterson (07:31)
Yeah, well, and thank you for sharing that moment and kind of what it looked like to you. And so let's keep let's fast forward and you know, what was the point at which you said, Okay, I'm going to give this a try. And why? Why did all of sudden it look like, you know, a worthwhile pursuit?

Juliann Wiese (07:51)
Yeah. It's multifaceted, I wish there was a more simple answer. One facet, yeah, one facet was that the, after you had left the organization we worked at together, there was a lot of transition going on in the role and the department that I worked in. And I think it was clear both to the new person who was coming in and to me that my career there

Barbara Patterson (07:58)
Usually is.

Juliann Wiese (08:17)
doing what I had loved doing was going away. And so there was a force that was happening that was going to move me out of that company, I think, regardless. The interesting thing was I actually negotiated to get three years worth of work as a consultant.

with that company as they were transitioning the model away from what I had been doing towards something different. And I think that was a spark moment right there. A big pivot point is like, I can influence people well enough to create what I want something and when I want something. And so I think that learning to negotiate early, like ask for what you want.

The worst that could happen is they say no. In this case, the answer was yes. And it gave me a easier launching point. So I had some stability, even though it wasn't everything that I would need financially to keep me secure, it was enough that I felt like, okay, well, I can now in the background and in that time that I'm gonna have start building a business.

So yeah, I think and again you were very much an influencer for me about no risk, no reward and that stuck with me when you talked to me about that. So yeah, it was a pivotal moment.

Barbara Patterson (09:41)
Yeah, you know, obviously, how long has that been for you now?

Juliann Wiese (09:47)
It'll be what was 13 years in May. Yeah.

Barbara Patterson (09:50)
Yeah, yeah.

And so I'd love to go back to kind of that point in time because I know a lot of the people I work with or in conversation with and even friends and family sort of have that moment or an opportunity either because maybe it was a job is being changed. Like you said, there's the futures, the writings on the wall as they say.

or they just feel this desire to wanna make a shift. And so I'm wondering if you could speak to kind of that first year maybe, and maybe it's even first six months, whatever just feels present. Like, can you describe, like what were some of the internal shifts or experiences that you had and what helped you at that period?

Juliann Wiese (10:42)
Yeah.

well, certainly there was a, a feeling of pressure, like a lot of, feeling of pressure. Like I've got to do this business development marketing thing. And the marketing piece was, I think harder for me because I hadn't really done that kind of work, but the business development, because I had taught sales training, I just decided to like, take my own,

you know, medicine, like it was time for me to actually put it into practice. And so I had lots of structures and support and resources to do that. And, and I was consistent about it. So I kept turning over rocks and finding work. And I think with each time I heard a yes, whether it was a consulting gig or some facilitation work or a new coaching client, you know, of course your confidence is building all along the way.

I was also getting a lot of no's and initially of course that's hard. It didn't take me very long to understand though that when they say in sales, hey, every no is just, you know, getting you closer to a yes, you start to realize that that's true and start to depersonalize it. And the moment that I hit that, and I don't remember exactly what it was that put me there, but I do remember going,

this isn't about me. When they say no, it's often not about me. Maybe sometimes it is, but it wasn't enough about me. It was often about them, whether it was timing or the chemistry wasn't right or the pricing was not what they wanted, whatever it might've been. But I started to let go of the attachment that that was a personal affront to me and started to see it as like, it's not rejection, it's redirection kind of thing.

And once I got there, things really changed. Like my husband even said, he said, you're so resilient. Like you just move on to the next thing. I, he's watching, of course, as an observer, seeing something that I might feel subconsciously, but didn't really, or wasn't able to articulate it. And then when he said it, I was like, yeah, I get this now, right? This is just like,

one day at a time, one effort at a time, stay consistent with it, don't let it get you down. And because I had done enough of that delivery to other people in the sales environment, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I tell people this all the time. Now I've got to swallow that myself. And I did. And so that was like a major uptick because then it was more experimental and fun and playful and

Barbara Patterson (13:17)
Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (13:22)
Like, let's try that and let's apply for that work and let's see what happens. And once you start going in as an explorer and there's sort of less, my God, I have to get this piece of work. It's amazing what happens, right? Like more work comes your way.

Barbara Patterson (13:38)
Yeah, yeah, it's so brilliant. And it's, I think just to, you know, highlight it underscore that ability to sort of get over it, get over ourselves to get over the no to depersonalize. That is such a it puts us like you said, it's like all of a sudden, we're standing on new ground, because, you know, we aren't getting derailed for days, maybe months because something

didn't know or it's taking a little bit more introductions than you wanted or there's a longer ramp time than you would like. All those things which we can really feel discouraging. so like that depersonalization is really like a discouragement proof potion. And I think when I love to, and I know you do too, like study entrepreneurs and leaders.

you know, kind of the successful ones, what are they seeing and doing? And years and years ago, I remember thinking like, for sales in particular, it's like, yeah, they just don't let a no stop them. And I don't mean that they keep pushing at the same thing they, as you said, they redirect and okay, well, what's next. So I think what you're saying is really valuable, really valuable. And so, you know,

Juliann Wiese (14:50)
Yeah.

Barbara Patterson (14:57)
Was it at that point that you sort of, or maybe you've never had this, but you kind of went, okay, I got this. This is what I do now. Like, did it ever go from, you know, people use imposter syndrome a lot or just still that I'm not sure if this is going to work to, okay.

Juliann Wiese (15:14)
Well, certainly I had moments like all of us do. Despite the fact that I think I learned how to depersonalize, it certainly had some bumps. And I remember days where I went, I don't know, this is really hard. And not to sound like, you

Barbara Patterson (15:25)
sure.

Juliann Wiese (15:34)
all these platitudes come to mind, but some of them are real. One of them is you've got to imagine that the evidence of your success is way more real than the narrative that's playing in your head that you can't or you shouldn't. And so, being able to stop yourself from getting into one of these ruminations that spiral you down,

I use exercise, of course, to help me cope with whatever, right? Whatever's going on, whatever stress is going on. And so I, because I recognized that so early in my life, I found, you know, that the discipline of getting some exercise always changed the nature of how I thought about life and myself. And so I use that discipline as a way to go, wait a minute.

look at the evidence to the contrary. You can do this. And even though it's hard, it's also worth it. Because at some point early on, I think it was my third year, I said, I am never going back to working for anyone else. The freedom, the creativity, the opportunities to sort of fade in and fade back, to lean into something that's exciting, that sort of compels you with some kind of curiosity.

You can't do that in most corporate environments. so, you once you realize that piece of it, it really did keep me going. And I think I got through a lot of those ruminations that we all have faster. And in the last five years or so, I have them so infrequently.

Barbara Patterson (17:14)
Nice. That's great. I think for all of us, our work, whether we're business owners or inside companies, whatever that might be, is really a vehicle to evolve us as humans. It's sort of like that realization you had about depersonalizing it and you're resilient. It was the nose that got you there.

Juliann Wiese (17:41)
Mm-hmm.

Barbara Patterson (17:41)
right

and having to kind of meet ourselves and I'm curious if you can see like what are some of the ways you believe being in business and having your own business has helped you evolve as a human or as a woman as a business person whatever it might be.

Juliann Wiese (17:58)
I need like seven hours to answer that question. The best ones, all right. Well, certainly, know, just feeling confident and it's not confident in knowing, it's confident in being. Like I can learn things.

Barbara Patterson (18:00)
I know. We just want the best ones, Julianne.

against COVID in being. I feel like that's.

Juliann Wiese (18:21)
I can read, can dabble, I can ask for help. And so there's a confidence that just comes from knowing, like there's nothing here that's really all that scary. And it's so much more fun if you put yourself a little bit out on the ledge. Staying safe doesn't have anywhere near the same kind of reward.

Barbara Patterson (18:39)
Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (18:44)
then the growth is exponential when you put yourself out on the ledge. And so once you get in, I think it's kind of like an adrenaline junkie, right? It's like, try that out and see what happens. And so as a result, I think the rest of my life has sort of followed suit. There's a lot of things that I probably wouldn't have done, wouldn't have experienced because now I just trust myself.

I shared this with you and we were talking before. There have been conversations I've been in with clients where they ask a question or we start to go down a train of thought. And it feels incredible because I didn't know that I knew anything about those things. Like it was like it came out, I was articulate, I felt like I had something to offer and yet I didn't know that I knew that.

And I think part of it is that you just are absorbing so many things that are outside of your conscious mind as you're working in the business, you're working alongside clients, as you're doing the reading, all of those things. And so now you, especially if you allow yourself to trust, that wisdom just sort of pops from all these places that you didn't expect. And so I think...

that's also been part of my evolution. I'm much more willing to try new things. I'm not worried about failure or mistakes to anywhere near to the degree that I used to be. I think I, even though it may not sound exactly how I want it to sound right now, I don't care as much about how other people view me. And certainly there are people I care very deeply about that.

Barbara Patterson (20:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (20:29)
I think generally I'm not as retracted or small because I'm worried about what other people are thinking. And so I think all of those things have contributed to me just having a much more exciting life.

Barbara Patterson (20:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, those, I love all of those. And I think that to start with the one about you're willing to try new things and you feel more the adventurer versus the cautionary tale person, you know, right? And I think that it's in a very simple way. It's like the more willing we are to go to stretch ourselves outside the bounds of comfort or guarantee of a certain outcome.

Juliann Wiese (20:57)
Yeah.

Barbara Patterson (21:10)
the more willing we are to experiment, we discover like, I could handle that. It wasn't smooth, but I don't really care. It was still fun. I think that I know for me, of the things was really realizing, getting aware of it, it was an unconscious thing that I was sort of overthinking things somehow with the idea that...

If I thought about it enough, would guarantee a certain outcome or guarantee a particular, you know, how the ride would go. it's, know, once I realized they have nothing to do with each other, you know, and it's just me being a little controlling or, you know, trying to over control something I had no control over. Like you, it's like, oh wait, what would happen if I just allowed it all? If I just allowed all of it, including those moments when I'm outside of my comfort zone. And then you're right, you discover like,

Juliann Wiese (21:33)
Mmm.

Barbara Patterson (22:00)
Okay, I figured it out. Or I love what you're sharing too. Like you start to realize, and for me, and I know you do work around the mind and the brain and thought and all that as well. But when I started to see, oh, wait, no, our mind is designed for creativity and problem solving. I don't have to like steer that. I don't have to be the one making that happen. It's like, it's the way it's designed. So,

Juliann Wiese (22:25)
Mm-hmm.

Barbara Patterson (22:30)
in a way we're designed to figure it out. We're designed to rise to the occasion. We're designed to find our way. And so that let me like, again, get a little looser about that somehow I've got to have a grip on it all. So I love what you're saying.

Juliann Wiese (22:44)
Yeah. And it led me down some pathways, of course, that in hindsight, you're like, okay, well, that was bumpy and maybe not that fun. Tons of learning. And I think that's the thing is all of the learning. So now, if I accumulate all that learning 13 years later, it makes for

Barbara Patterson (22:51)
Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (23:08)
choices that are more fulfilling and so that would be something I would want to encourage and pass along to anybody who decides to work for themselves is there really aren't mistakes, there really aren't failures. They can feel like those things in the moment, they're really just learning and the minute you could make that distinction and say I learned a ton from that.

There's some heartache along the way in that learning, of course, but it didn't kill you. And yeah, and you're still able to move forward, take action on the next thing.

Barbara Patterson (23:36)
Yeah.

Is there a particular story in your own journey around that that could get categorized in that failure?

Juliann Wiese (23:52)
Yeah, yeah.

Barbara Patterson (23:54)
but showed you something, taught you something.

Juliann Wiese (23:56)
Yeah, I got a opportunity to coach someone who was being groomed for the executive suite. And there was a timeline, it was a two year transition for him. And I think we had really good chemistry. I didn't check in often enough with his boss.

And at the beginning of the arrangement, of course, there was a sponsored approach. So I did meet with the CEO to talk about the candidate, but I didn't meet frequently enough and check in enough. I think what happened is the client didn't really lean in. And while I wanted to keep

the confidentiality and all that stuff, it was very clear that there was no action happening. There was no forward movement. We were meeting, but nothing was growing from it. And I had a decision to make, which was, do I keep coaching? Do I talk about it with the client? Do I talk about it with the sponsor?

So I talked about it with the client. I said, I don't think we're making any forward progress. His reaction was really like, that's insulting. And I said, I have to let your boss know that I don't think we should continue. And he felt like that was a stab in the back.

And I was on this precipice of I didn't know how to proceed. Anyway, of course, what happened was I did end up talking to the boss. He saw me as a failure. He also saw the client as a failure. It ruined my reputation with that organization. And I had done some consulting work with them in addition to some coaching. And so

you know, from a financial perspective and a reputation perspective, it was a big deal. Like I felt like I had on collision. and yeah, I was reeling from that for a while because I really just felt like I didn't have any good choices for, for dealing with it appropriately. so a lot of good learning in terms of now going forward from that much clear in my

agreements with sponsors and clients about the confidentiality clauses, about the check-in cadence, about clarifying what could happen if people don't lean in and take advantage of the fact that the company is paying a lot of money for them to have this opportunity. it really now, of course, it's years later, now it's like

Barbara Patterson (26:27)
Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (26:32)
Wow, that was so helpful because my agreements are tight now ⁓ and I know what to make sure gets articulated and surfaced and confirmed very succinctly because of it.

Barbara Patterson (26:37)
Yeah.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I think that's it. There's no way to avoid those on the job training lessons, whether you're inside a company or doing your own thing, or you're getting promoted from within and you're doing a job you've never done. There is this sort of on the job learning. And yeah, we can sort of get caught in the

financial implication or just the self criticalness of it, know, wishing you had known more than you knew. And so when we let all that go, though, I, you know, what you're saying around, it changed you, like it did its job in a way like that moment showed you like, this is how I want to show up. These are the contracting both verbally, not just the legal document, but like,

What's our agreement? Are we on the same page? All of that makes you better. It improves the way you show up for yourself and the clients. So I think if people could also understand, there's no way around those types of experiences. There just isn't. I haven't met anyone yet that doesn't learn on the job and sometimes go, that was a bad idea or I was clueless or I wish I would have known more before I did, but we didn't, right?

Juliann Wiese (27:46)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah. And those lessons are...

visceral and I think that makes them that much more helpful. Again, in the rear view mirror, it's so clear to me that every time I have stumbled or had a shake up like that, I've come out the other side of it stronger in the work and clearer in the work. And now I'm at a point where of course I'm much

Barbara Patterson (28:12)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (28:36)
more thoughtful about my yeses and nos than I would have been at that time.

Barbara Patterson (28:41)
Yeah, yeah. And I think one of the things that has helped me is, you know, when our work involves other humans, right? And we see like, there's a moment in which we're like, I had a blind spot there or I didn't do my best there or I, you know, wish I had done it differently.

I think to remember that there's always like, it doesn't end with that. Like, you know, there's a way to step back into the conversation, even if it doesn't like in your case, reengage a client, there's a way that we can take a step that helps us feel like, okay, I've done right by myself or that person, even regardless of what happens moving forward, you know, like.

Because I'm thinking of an example when I had a conversation with somebody and this was a founder of an organization. And I remember after like spending the day with them, I just went back thinking, I'm not sure we got anywhere really valuable for this person. And so to first not let that take me down,

bum myself out with it, right? Like, just to like, like it happens. Not every conversation is a home run, right? Or when you're in relationship with people, whether you're coaching or managing them, that's part of it, you're gonna have those. And I remember just once I stopped rehashing it, I stopped my mind from just rehashing it and thinking what I could have done. I was like, wait, what occurs to me to do now? Like,

Juliann Wiese (30:01)
Mm-hmm.

Barbara Patterson (30:23)
just as you said it earlier, looking at it neutrally, like this is what is, this is where we end it, what occurs to me to do now. And that has been so helpful to me because then in that instance, I was able to go back the next morning and I just started with that. And I just, and rather than solving it in my head before I got there, I was like, hey, so I walked away wondering this, what do you think about?

How do you think we did yesterday? Was there anything fresh for you? Was there not? And then it led to this really great conversation for both of us. And he was, it got him in a place of, yeah, how can I show up different today? But, and then it got me more present and available and honest in that moment too. So I love that it's like, okay, this is what's happening.

This is what is, this is what's happened, and now how do I just, what occurs to me now to do next?

Juliann Wiese (31:23)
What comes up for me when I hear you say that, Barb, is how much inappropriate time we spend trying to impress and perform versus be useful and have meaningful dialogue. And what you described sounds so real and authentic. I do think sometimes we are, as we start an entrepreneurial

life, we do try to perform a little too much. And I think under those circumstances, that imposter syndrome is much more likely to occur in those moments than if we just say, if I'm real here, I wonder what happens. And I think that comes from trusting yourself and it takes a while to get there, right? So again, if you're persistent and

and you're willing to live through the bumps, you will get to the other side of trying to impress and perform and instead being real and let your sort of wisdom show up, which is what you just described to me. That's how I'm interpreting it.

Barbara Patterson (32:24)
Yeah, well, and when I started to see like, wait a minute, I'm, I want to create a conversation again, any kind of conversation where showing up as you are is, is ideal, where we're not like, over editing or cultivating everything that comes out of our mouth and therefore real impact doesn't happen. And this is like, with family, friends or clients, right? Or teammates.

I realized I'm like, then persona can't, I can't show up in persona and expect them to be real. You know, like it's like, it's how I can't be putting on like feeling like I have this extra onness or edginess or whatever that I think is necessary and then have them drop it completely. You know, so that what you're saying, and you know what?

I'm, it's so boring when persona meets persona and image meets image. It's so boring. You know, so, uh, yeah, really, but you're right. It, it, sometimes it feels like a bold move to just be real, but I've always been grateful every time I've done it. Even if it might've been not received completely the way I'd hoped I've always been.

Juliann Wiese (33:19)
Yes. ⁓

Yeah.

Barbara Patterson (33:45)
happier myself showing up that way.

Juliann Wiese (33:48)
Yeah, and I think presence trumps a lot of other things, like often intelligence. If we're trying to prove that we're intelligent, I think there's a completely different essence to those moments than if you were just present with the person that you're with. Being a coach helps because you learn a lot about listening. And...

Barbara Patterson (33:56)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

All that, yeah.

Juliann Wiese (34:13)
listening to others, listening to yourself. All of that matters in the movement forward of a business and an evolution of the human who's behind the business and the people who, of course, are interacting with.

Barbara Patterson (34:30)
Yeah. Well, you you mentioned the exercise and I know you and your husband, John, are avid. I was going to say, wrote not you. What is it? Mountain biking. Thank you. can tell I am not. And so, but I'm curious. When we met to catch up, you talked a lot.

Juliann Wiese (34:43)
Mountain baking, yeah, yeah.

Barbara Patterson (34:50)
about some of the, you know, what you've learned actually through mountain biking and seeing it both as an entrepreneur in life. Would you share some of that, Julianne?

Juliann Wiese (35:00)
Yeah,

yeah, there's so many crossovers. One of them is, so I've been mountain biking, I don't know, 35 years, probably. And still to this day, I'll be on a single track trail and there'll be something ahead of me. And of course, most of the time you want to be watching what's right in front of you, but you're glancing up just to get a sense of what's coming.

And there are many, many times you're like, there's no way I'm going to be able to get over that rock. I can't believe how steep that looks like I'm going to have to get off the bike or that route is just at an angle. There's no way I'm going to make it over that. And then you're on it and you do it. And it's changed. So the perception of the difficulty is very different than the reality of it.

And I think that's a really, like that's really sunk into my cells over this journey of being on my own in business is whatever looks hard, if you just step into it, it's going to be easier than you think it is, especially if you trust yourself. And yeah, hopefully after 35 years of being on a bike, you trust that you know the bike and having a good bike helps a lot.

But I think that experience of it still happens to this day. There's no way. And then you do it. Like, wow, I did that. It's not as hard as it looks.

Barbara Patterson (36:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think that that realizing what your mind is doing is just imagination, like it's not really a predictor of the future, you know, and a moment of anxiety about what's to come is just that a moment of anxiety, there's no truth in it. There's, you know, and I think the more we realize that the more helpful it is. And I think you're right. You know, there are those funny like videos or memes out there that

you know, somebody doing a happy dance and it says something like, finally did that thing I've been putting off for six months and it took me 10 minutes, you know, like it's all those things that look like this hurdle in our mind. And yet, as you said, you'd step into it you're like, well, that wasn't so bad. Or even if it wasn't great, like it maybe was challenging, you realize like, I was, it was fine. It's often never.

Juliann Wiese (37:08)
Yeah.

Barbara Patterson (37:24)
as hard as you said, right, as the mind wants us to believe it is beforehand.

Juliann Wiese (37:30)
Yeah. And like the, the wanting for certainty, I think is natural. And no one has it. No one has certainty about the future. And yet there are parts of it that we can, with our efforts can control. And so I think that's, you know, that's the other thing is to go, okay, well, I'm going to shape as much of my future as I can by taking action and

Barbara Patterson (37:40)
Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (37:57)
Again, nothing I'm going to do is as risky as climbing Mount Everest. And so once you learn, hey, it's not that big of a risk. Your brain might be telling you, that's risky. It really isn't in many cases. For example, I've applied for jobs, work, consulting work, whatever it might be.

I think a lot of people, women maybe even in particular, underestimate their abilities and devalue some of those transferable skills that could get them into a space they want to occupy. I've just started to say, don't care if they say no, I'm gonna try it anyway. And again, I would say I've had more nos than yeses.

And I've had enough yeses that I've been financially stable for 13 years with the caveat of the pandemic, of course. Ebsen flows, yeah.

Barbara Patterson (38:48)
Yeah, ebbs and flows, right? Yeah.

Well, and you know, I remember one of the first kind of big promotions I got and they moved me to a new city and it was a company I was working for got acquired and then the new company offered me a position and I moved and I remember driving to it was in Cincinnati, I drove to Cincinnati and then that night got into my little, you know, temporary apartment and just had this moment of

what the hell did I say yes to? know, like what, I don't have a clue. And I called my sister and thankfully she talked me off the edge and you know, all of that. But it was after that that I realized, oh wait, every promotion, because you and I are in the field of talent management and learning and leadership development. So I would be a part of the conversations that

Juliann Wiese (39:17)
Hahaha

Barbara Patterson (39:44)
helped people grow their careers or created opportunities in the organization for them. And I realized early on, thankfully, we've never done the job we're getting promoted to. So of course, you aren't gonna know what it's gonna be like or what you're gonna do. Not knowing is just a given. And the more comfortable we are with that, and again, you realize, you learn on the job, you figure it out. Everyone's doing that day to day, figuring it out.

like nobody really has the formula that's guaranteed a particular outcome or success, right? You know, so it's so freeing to like, you know, realize, okay. And I like what you said, like, ultimately, what we're cultivating is our ability to get comfortable in uncertainty. Like, that's what we want to cultivate. Not what the mind often wants you to do is search and find the thing that's going to make you feel okay.

Right? No, let's just get okay with uncertainty.

Juliann Wiese (40:43)
Yeah, I like to call it the wobbles.

Because I don't like to use words like struggling or challenge or ⁓ obstacles, okay. I really like this idea of wobbling and it's helped me and I think it helps some of the clients I've coached to think of it as you're in a wobble state and it could be fun and it could be exciting.

Barbara Patterson (40:49)
Yeah. Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (41:07)
And so, you what about wobbling in the past? Can you reflect on where you see it as an opportunity as opposed to a struggle or a challenge? And yeah, so have you ever skateboarded, Barb?

Barbara Patterson (41:23)
Like when I was 10, 10 or 11, yeah, yeah.

Juliann Wiese (41:27)
I was never any good at it, but my brother did a lot of it. And I would get on the skateboard. And of course, the only thing I could do is sort of wobble back and forth from the, you but that was fun. It was fun going down the street and wobbling. And so I think that's where I picked that up is it's okay to be in the wobbles.

Barbara Patterson (41:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, well, of course now in my head is weevils wobble, but they don't fall down. Anyone that's our age will get that reference. so, Julian, I'm curious just, is there any place right now that you feel like your business is like helping you evolve more? Is there a place right now for you that you feel like is an edge, a new edge for you, something that's

Juliann Wiese (41:49)
Yeah

Yeah, that's right.

Barbara Patterson (42:11)
you know, maybe uncomfortable or maybe exciting, either or.

Juliann Wiese (42:14)
Yeah. Well, maybe two things. One is I'm on the precipice of submitting for my MCC, which is the highest tier for a coach to achieve. Took me 13 years to even be able to submit. So it's an onerous process. And only 4 % of the coaches worldwide right now have achieved that. So I think it's a big deal for me.

Barbara Patterson (42:36)
Yeah.

Juliann Wiese (42:37)
There's been a ton of learning and I think I've grown a lot and there's still more growth to be done because the way you show up as a new coach is very much focused on helping somebody achieve a very specific goal.

What I've learned through the 13 years is my job as a coach is really to let that person see themselves powerful and capable and creative and whole and so it's not so compartmentalized into you're trying to achieve X. It's how do you help yourself?

through every one of life's challenges by knowing who you truly are and what you're truly capable of. So that's a big evolution and I think I'm still on that path. The second thing is I'm writing a book and it's actually interesting that you brought up the mountain biking, because I am going to write about the crossover I see between all of the things I've learned on a bike and...

Barbara Patterson (43:28)
amazing.

Juliann Wiese (43:42)
lessons for people to reflect upon, life lessons to reflect upon that the bike metaphor has enunciated for me.

Barbara Patterson (43:51)
can't wait, seriously, I can't wait to read it. I hope I get a advanced copy. I'll put my name on the list. Well, I want to thank you so much for being here and I want to try something new with you today if you're game. So I've been, I want to ask you a few, they're quite rapid fire questions, but kind of in the vein of that and see if.

Juliann Wiese (43:53)
Thank you, yeah.

Advanced copy, yes.

Yeah, of course.

Barbara Patterson (44:14)
This will be something I'll do with all guests. And the reason I'm just FYI kind of inspired to play with that is I think there's something fun about sharing specific resources or ideas or pointed messages for the audience. So hopefully it'll be something valuable to them, but we'll see. We may take all this out. So first question, what's one habit or belief

Juliann Wiese (44:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, sounds fun.

Barbara Patterson (44:40)
that's quietly shaped your life or work.

Juliann Wiese (44:43)
being willing to go on an adventure.

Barbara Patterson (44:46)
Nice, nice. If you could give listeners one tiny experiment to try this week, what would it be?

Juliann Wiese (44:52)
Drive to a place you have to go on roads you've never been on before.

Barbara Patterson (44:59)
knife. What's a myth about success, business or leadership that you wish people would finally ditch?

Juliann Wiese (45:05)
that it's hard and not worth it.

Barbara Patterson (45:08)
And you talk to a little bit to this one, but I'll ask it. When things get messy or uncertain, is there a phrase that you lean on or a practice to help you in those moments?

Juliann Wiese (45:22)
No risk, no reward from my friend, Barb Patterson, and exercise.

Barbara Patterson (45:27)
Yeah, nice. And then finally, what's one rule in your field, field of coaching or leadership that you secretly love to break or wish everyone would break?

Juliann Wiese (45:39)
Ahem.

Leadership is first and foremost an inside job. So stop thinking that some form of book or leadership development program is the answer to your leadership challenges.

Barbara Patterson (45:53)
Yeah, yes, amen to that, yes. So, and just to offer finally, is there anything else that's present for you or you'd like to share before we go, Julian?

Juliann Wiese (46:03)
Hmm. I would just want everyone to know that you can. And it's worth it. And that the obstacles or the wobbles are in many ways the most exciting parts and fulfilling parts of life.

Barbara Patterson (46:18)
Yeah, great. Thank you so much. I so appreciate you sharing yourself and your insights and your journey. I know the listeners are gaining a lot and we'll have on the show notes ways that people can get connected to you and find you. So thank you, Julie Ann.

Juliann Wiese (46:19)
Thank you, Barb.

and fun.

Thank you.

Thanks, Barb.